Are tubz vending followers or leaders?

[choice vending]

Out of interest bri how many machines do u have? Did u buy rounds up or employ site finder?

Not sure unless i go to my database and write it all down. ive about 260 sites with about 400 machines. Mini can towers, pringles, toys, bulks, and a few odd bit and bobs ive have had a punt on.

Sitefinders have got me about 15% of my sites. 15% myself cold calling and 70% buy buying existing vendors out.

An example of the sum i work on would be 15k buys a existing vendor out with 100 sited machines at £150 per sited machine full of stock or the eqivelent in cash. Loan payments over 3 years would be about £500 per month. sales @ 30 per month =3k @ 31% profit after drivers wages =£930. Ok fuel and other costs come out but last the term of the loan and happy days are ahead

[Venderbase]

My advice would be to be invest fairly heavily in pringle machines as I know there is a decent long term future in those machines (without pringles!) not going to say much more as obviously this is coming from a supplier but thats where I am putting alot of my money.

Cheers
Jonny

Hi Jonny,

What makes you so sure that Pringles prices will remain stable. Also, I find it difficult siting Pringles, as my pubs dont want crisp sales affected. Are there any other good pringles site types that you have tried.

Thanks,

paul

(without Pringles)
He's saying there is future in the machines, so i'm guessing at the large empty pots with different products.
Lot's of potential, and also I reckon it's easier to change to a £2 vend as the tubs are bigger so you can fill them more.

[Jon123]

Daz your bang on the money!!

The problem with the mini cans is its just visibly to small to charge more for. where as the pringle tubs are huge with big capacitys which makes it easy to give value for money at £2.00 also you could open up what sweets you can put i.e a wider range, cadburys chocolate eclaires, mini snickers, mini mars bars etc.. imo huge potential. however when this is done this will kill the mini can towers hence my advise. Ever wondered why the pringle machines and more expensive than the mini can yet the mini can machines probably cost more to make?!

Theres still 5 years in mini can vending. but after that unless we see a massive calming down of commodity, assets and general stagflation it will probably become unviable.

of course there is always the chance we will join the euro which would give us the 2 euro vend, but I think the euro is on a way street to self destruction so I don't see that.

at some point in the future vending prices will just have to change bouleys will be a £2 , 50p bouncy balls will be at a £1 and you will get 2 capsules for 0.50p and not 0.40p, the challenge is not converting too soon and not converting too late and missing a very profitable stage.

I already sell 0.50p bouncy balls for a £1 and its the best margin I make. In a good site I have 1 bouley, 1 apollo with £1 bouncy balls in and a 4 20p toy machines. last take was £250 in 4 weeks the bouncy ball machine did £110 in 4 weeks. the balls are costing 0.15p in the machine. some sites can take it some cannot you have to work out the sites you can hike the prices or when adding machines to site have them at a higher vend price. as for changing vend price its not costly you just need to find a metal engineer who can expand the coin mech or add one if needed on the wheel.

I think its down to your opinion and the way you challenge the problems you see, also britain is a very different place and different geo graphics will have a play in this. you could put tower machines out in knightsbidge/chelsea/kensington for £3 a vend and they would pay all day. but in the more deprived areas £1 will be difficult to achieve.

Vending is not a one size fits all around the country you have to adapt to your location and play on that.

Cheers
Jonny

[FlintVending]

There are limits to those paramaters though.

Prices are only going to go up, the way I see this is that at some point the £1.00 vend will have to increase and up to £2.00 which is a massive 'hike' for consumers (will they wear it?) and a considerable burden upon operators whom will need new coin mechs - most likely two pound coins due to the scarcity of the two pound coin. Something has to give...

I generally agree with you and expect standards will drop in product quality before the above happens, however looking at the overall issue and speaking personally I'd be getting out of the tower business sooner rather than later unless someone comes up with a better format. Certainly anyone can understand the frustrations of operators and no doubt producers alike, it's a scenario I am no stranger to with our own network 2007 to 2010 where unfortunately changes couldn't be made due to a binding legal agreement with our former master franchisee in England, whom thankfully has now been dispensed with - franchisees were discouraged from speaking to me directly by this individual. Fortunately some did and like you say feedback is essential and I listened, immediately restructured and dropped the prices of all products by a considerable margin so "Yes" it is absolutely a good thing to have open forums when used properly.

As to starting our own brand of sweeties and snacks, it's not something I have any interest in doing but having looked at it briefly we could... The snacks come from Israel and Turkey, the sweeties from ROC and as a guide typical products are by the ton pro-rata a few pennies a tub (no seriously) and as nobody seems to have a USP in the arena... it's wide open. Compliance with FSA not that difficult as we already have a food safe clean room for packing and section of the 'shed' certified for food storage... but all that aside my point is that even for us considering these margins it still would not be worth the effort because the format is fundamentally flawed.

I'll tell you this though, that if Richard Branson & CO manage to decriminalise the posession of drugs there's no shortage of imagination to what will be going into our vending machines. :) I do wish everyone in towers the best of luck and hope it gets better (somehow) but honestly my advice would be to start looking for an alternate income...

Well Towers work well for me and provide a very good ROI!

I think I have been shrewd, admittedly, I bought most all mine second hand at the average price of £125 incl stock and stand.
I know they are cheap plastic machines and not high tech at all but they do an excellent job of selling product (we are a nation of sweet lovers, after all) and they simplicity itself and thats the two main important things as far as I am concerned.

Think about it, how much would a washroom machine that had NINE selections cost, £500 + ?? and what kind of turnover can you get from a washroom machine, certainly nothing like a tower in the same site.

The Only product that has a reasonable turnover in the washroom is the Goldenroot in my experience.
I am Not having ago at Naughty Vend and have met David and I must say I think his concept and products are very good indeed!
Its just that there are alot more suitable sites out there for towers than there arefor Naughty novelty products in the washrooms!

At one time I operated over 1200 condom machines and my turnover was no more than I can do with 200 towers!
Yes, it is always going to be challanging with a machine that can only do the one coin vend, put I am very confident that suppliers of these mini cans will ALWAYS be able to provide a produst at 30- 40% of retail price even if it means using cheaper/ less sweets until we are ready for a higher value coin!

Cheers
Nigel

[david@naughtyvend]

Paul, the 'hint' was in the brackets...

[Rossi fan]

Paul, the 'hint' was in the brackets...

David,

Give me a break. Have you got nothing else to do, than pick fault. I am working on my house renovation and just misread it because I only had a few minutes spare. its not a major thing.


Paul

[Vendingwarehouse]

Ok Kris i understand what you are saying but even at that price its not a viable product to a proffessional vendor. i think you should of waited untill the euro came in if it ever does. The product is viable in Ireland with the 2 euro vend. Feel free to disagree but its my point of view. 40.95x10 devide by 11 =37.22p =44.66 +20% +4% flat rate vat+10p wages =78.66p= 21.3 p profit.

What you lads getting all 'hot under the collar' about?

All the companies such as Tubs, Hurleys etc. do a job for you in sourcing / storage / bulk buying / investment and that's money as well as time you don't need to invest, so they charge a premium for this. It's not too much to ask and if you need to get stressed out about saving 10p on prices (whilst I accept every penny counts) then shouldn't you be looking to sell a different product / product type or diversify instead, rather than re-invest in what looks to be a problematic side of the industry? A fair margin is exactly that but it's also fair of the buyer (as one has) to look at the position they could be in had they been reliant upon doing everything these providers do for them, by themselves.

Just saying my piece as an outsider but it seems to be a common discussion (a loose term) on this forum. You know there's several folks on this forum myself included could pick up the phone and order a 40' truck load of snacks from Spain and start re-selling them under our own brand, every asked yourselves why we are not doing just that...?

David,

Being an outsider then you should be aware that if people arent happy then they complain. I too agree suppliers need to make money or they wouldnt be in business. But if a supplier is overcharging and the middleman ie forum members aren't making any money, then surely they have the right to get 'hot under the collar' as you put it?If suppliers are not made aware of peoples discontentions then how are they supposed to remedy them?

Regarding starting up a company, I dont think its quite as simple as ordering a few pallets and rebranding especially when the euro prices are so high at the moment.If it was I am sure there would be a whole lot more suppliers, the fact that all 3 of the sweet suppliers fill their own tubs shows the lucrative profits are no longer there to be made from importing.

I suppose the point raised about leaders or followers maybe points toward the fact that one of the companys have been packaging there own for quite some time and charging the same as those that were importing for less profit. Maybe that annoyed a few customers as they were aware of the huge profits being made, especially when operators were expected to be working on 20p profit per sale with increasing overheads. Maybe it was a mistake not dropping prices earlier to prevent the need for other companies to start up,who knows?

As an operator it is always good business practice to cut costs wherever possible. The major cost of this business is the goods you are buying and previously there was no competition with suppliers dictating price of goods. However
things have changed now, and if as an operator you are not happy with profits that are being made then it is up the the operator to let the supplier know that, and the best way to do that is to go to another supplier, not diversify.

Totally agree Matt...
Saying that we should be grateful to suppliers because they fill a gap in the supply chain, is ludicrous David. They fill their gap and vendors fill theirs. Equally one could argue that the suppliers should be grateful to vendors for buying the product off them , but that would be silly. Horses for courses and it's basically a chicken and egg scenario. All levels in the supply chain need each other so gratefullness doesn't come in to it. That's business , someone manufacturers the product and it moves down the supply chain until it reaches the consumer . People at each level set their price and sell or don't sell it's as simple as that. To suggest that operators should cut suppliers a bit of slack is very one sided and pretentious.

[Rossi fan]

Daz your bang on the money!!

The problem with the mini cans is its just visibly to small to charge more for. where as the pringle tubs are huge with big capacitys which makes it easy to give value for money at £2.00 also you could open up what sweets you can put i.e a wider range, cadburys chocolate eclaires, mini snickers, mini mars bars etc.. imo huge potential. however when this is done this will kill the mini can towers hence my advise. Ever wondered why the pringle machines and more expensive than the mini can yet the mini can machines probably cost more to make?!

Theres still 5 years in mini can vending. but after that unless we see a massive calming down of commodity, assets and general stagflation it will probably become unviable.

of course there is always the chance we will join the euro which would give us the 2 euro vend, but I think the euro is on a way street to self destruction so I don't see that.

at some point in the future vending prices will just have to change bouleys will be a £2 , 50p bouncy balls will be at a £1 and you will get 2 capsules for 0.50p and not 0.40p, the challenge is not converting too soon and not converting too late and missing a very profitable stage.

I already sell 0.50p bouncy balls for a £1 and its the best margin I make. In a good site I have 1 bouley, 1 apollo with £1 bouncy balls in and a 4 20p toy machines. last take was £250 in 4 weeks the bouncy ball machine did £110 in 4 weeks. the balls are costing 0.15p in the machine. some sites can take it some cannot you have to work out the sites you can hike the prices or when adding machines to site have them at a higher vend price. as for changing vend price its not costly you just need to find a metal engineer who can expand the coin mech or add one if needed on the wheel.

I think its down to your opinion and the way you challenge the problems you see, also britain is a very different place and different geo graphics will have a play in this. you could put tower machines out in knightsbidge/chelsea/kensington for £3 a vend and they would pay all day. but in the more deprived areas £1 will be difficult to achieve.

Vending is not a one size fits all around the country you have to adapt to your location and play on that.

Cheers
Jonny

Thanks Jonny- loads of good points in your post. You talk about putting eclairs, mini bars etc, but I am concerned as to how many loose sweets would need to be put in the Pringles sized pot, to make it viable for a good profit and also for the customer to think they were getting a better deal for £2.

Thanks,

Paul

[Jon123]

Daz your bang on the money!!

The problem with the mini cans is its just visibly to small to charge more for. where as the pringle tubs are huge with big capacitys which makes it easy to give value for money at £2.00 also you could open up what sweets you can put i.e a wider range, cadburys chocolate eclaires, mini snickers, mini mars bars etc.. imo huge potential. however when this is done this will kill the mini can towers hence my advise. Ever wondered why the pringle machines and more expensive than the mini can yet the mini can machines probably cost more to make?!

Theres still 5 years in mini can vending. but after that unless we see a massive calming down of commodity, assets and general stagflation it will probably become unviable.

of course there is always the chance we will join the euro which would give us the 2 euro vend, but I think the euro is on a way street to self destruction so I don't see that.



at some point in the future vending prices will just have to change bouleys will be a £2 , 50p bouncy balls will be at a £1 and you will get 2 capsules for 0.50p and not 0.40p, the challenge is not converting too soon and not converting too late and missing a very profitable stage.

I already sell 0.50p bouncy balls for a £1 and its the best margin I make. In a good site I have 1 bouley, 1 apollo with £1 bouncy balls in and a 4 20p toy machines. last take was £250 in 4 weeks the bouncy ball machine did £110 in 4 weeks. the balls are costing 0.15p in the machine. some sites can take it some cannot you have to work out the sites you can hike the prices or when adding machines to site have them at a higher vend price. as for changing vend price its not costly you just need to find a metal engineer who can expand the coin mech or add one if needed on the wheel.

I think its down to your opinion and the way you challenge the problems you see, also britain is a very different place and different geo graphics will have a play in this. you could put tower machines out in knightsbidge/chelsea/kensington for £3 a vend and they would pay all day. but in the more deprived areas £1 will be difficult to achieve.

Vending is not a one size fits all around the country you have to adapt to your location and play on that.

Cheers
Jonny

Thanks Jonny- loads of good points in your post. You talk about putting eclairs, mini bars etc, but I am concerned as to how many loose sweets would need to be put in the Pringles sized pot, to make it viable for a good profit and also for the customer to think they were getting a better deal for £2.

Thanks,

Paul

The way I see it is that if you go in to a sweet shop I would bet that you would buy sweets that you cannot get in mini cans. and the main reason those products are not stocked in mini cans is the size and the margin for the wholesaler, but if you open up the size of the pot and the vend which in turn opens up the wholesaler's margin you have a different ball game.

The other thing you have is that saysol already do a pringle size tin of nuts for the very same reason we are discussing here in which mini can salysol products are becoming less and less viable. They see the future with pringle machines and I see a similar vision.

As for the products you put in the world really is your oyster finding the right product mix will be more difficult.
I would like to see really good quality fudge and an original mint sweet. being sold in pringle sized tubs. I also like the Idea of 2 different types of sweet in a tub to give maximum appeal.

Cheers
Jonny

[Vendingwarehouse]

I think what you are saying Jonny is absolutely true. However I must also point out that if you go down the road of a pringle size pot at £2.00 you will definitely kill the mini can market. Mainly because you will never be able to increase the vend price . It will also be no value to customers or operators at £1.00. I know you have already said something similar but it is an important point. It would be a sow transition and will end up with a lot less operators in the market.

Regards

Noel