Are tubz vending followers or leaders?

[david@naughtyvend]

There are limits to those paramaters though.

Prices are only going to go up, the way I see this is that at some point the £1.00 vend will have to increase and up to £2.00 which is a massive 'hike' for consumers (will they wear it?) and a considerable burden upon operators whom will need new coin mechs - most likely two pound coins due to the scarcity of the two pound coin. Something has to give...

I generally agree with you and expect standards will drop in product quality before the above happens, however looking at the overall issue and speaking personally I'd be getting out of the tower business sooner rather than later unless someone comes up with a better format. Certainly anyone can understand the frustrations of operators and no doubt producers alike, it's a scenario I am no stranger to with our own network 2007 to 2010 where unfortunately changes couldn't be made due to a binding legal agreement with our former master franchisee in England, whom thankfully has now been dispensed with - franchisees were discouraged from speaking to me directly by this individual. Fortunately some did and like you say feedback is essential and I listened, immediately restructured and dropped the prices of all products by a considerable margin so "Yes" it is absolutely a good thing to have open forums when used properly.

As to starting our own brand of sweeties and snacks, it's not something I have any interest in doing but having looked at it briefly we could... The snacks come from Israel and Turkey, the sweeties from ROC and as a guide typical products are by the ton pro-rata a few pennies a tub (no seriously) and as nobody seems to have a USP in the arena... it's wide open. Compliance with FSA not that difficult as we already have a food safe clean room for packing and section of the 'shed' certified for food storage... but all that aside my point is that even for us considering these margins it still would not be worth the effort because the format is fundamentally flawed.

I'll tell you this though, that if Richard Branson & CO manage to decriminalise the posession of drugs there's no shortage of imagination to what will be going into our vending machines. :) I do wish everyone in towers the best of luck and hope it gets better (somehow) but honestly my advice would be to start looking for an alternate income...

[choice vending]

Ok Kris i understand what you are saying but even at that price its not a viable product to a proffessional vendor. i think you should of waited untill the euro came in if it ever does. The product is viable in Ireland with the 2 euro vend. Feel free to disagree but its my point of view. 40.95x10 devide by 11 =37.22p =44.66 +20% +4% flat rate vat+10p wages =78.66p= 21.3 p profit.

What you lads getting all 'hot under the collar' about?

All the companies such as Tubs, Hurleys etc. do a job for you in sourcing / storage / bulk buying / investment and that's money as well as time you don't need to invest, so they charge a premium for this. It's not too much to ask and if you need to get stressed out about saving 10p on prices (whilst I accept every penny counts) then shouldn't you be looking to sell a different product / product type or diversify instead, rather than re-invest in what looks to be a problematic side of the industry? A fair margin is exactly that but it's also fair of the buyer (as one has) to look at the position they could be in had they been reliant upon doing everything these providers do for them, by themselves.

Just saying my piece as an outsider but it seems to be a common discussion (a loose term) on this forum. You know there's several folks on this forum myself included could pick up the phone and order a 40' truck load of snacks from Spain and start re-selling them under our own brand, every asked yourselves why we are not doing just that...?

Yea i looked at that and there is a saving to be made. UNTILL you look at the packaging side of business! Unless you invest thousands on a packing machine the money you save by self packing is swallowed up but the time it takes to pack the sweets. I put myself on the clock and it took me over an hour to pack a box of sweets. Say at £5 per hour your savings have disappered

[david@naughtyvend]

Ok Kris i understand what you are saying but even at that price its not a viable product to a proffessional vendor. i think you should of waited untill the euro came in if it ever does. The product is viable in Ireland with the 2 euro vend. Feel free to disagree but its my point of view. 40.95x10 devide by 11 =37.22p =44.66 +20% +4% flat rate vat+10p wages =78.66p= 21.3 p profit.

What you lads getting all 'hot under the collar' about?

All the companies such as Tubs, Hurleys etc. do a job for you in sourcing / storage / bulk buying / investment and that's money as well as time you don't need to invest, so they charge a premium for this. It's not too much to ask and if you need to get stressed out about saving 10p on prices (whilst I accept every penny counts) then shouldn't you be looking to sell a different product / product type or diversify instead, rather than re-invest in what looks to be a problematic side of the industry? A fair margin is exactly that but it's also fair of the buyer (as one has) to look at the position they could be in had they been reliant upon doing everything these providers do for them, by themselves.

Just saying my piece as an outsider but it seems to be a common discussion (a loose term) on this forum. You know there's several folks on this forum myself included could pick up the phone and order a 40' truck load of snacks from Spain and start re-selling them under our own brand, every asked yourselves why we are not doing just that...?

Yea i looked at that and there is a saving to be made. UNTILL you look at the packaging side of business! Unless you invest thousands on a packing machine the money you save by self packing is swallowed up but the time it takes to pack the sweets. I put myself on the clock and it took me over an hour to pack a box of sweets. Say at £5 per hour your savings have disappered

Automation and investment is key, for example we use a King Labs digital counter to verify our capsules and can count about 8000 - 10000 in an hour where manually you'd be there all feckin' day. There's a good choice of second hand equipment on the market due to the financial state of businesses where the assests are being liquidated, search around and you might just get lucky and remember a new power supply isn't relatively expensive if the machine you source is not in the UK / EC.

[Vendition Ltd]

Hi Dave,

I don't think you are seeing the full picture here,

The tower vending industry are now teamed up with the help for heroes charity and we have managed to increase margins by another 10% along with another 5% increase from supplier competion. So siting towers now with help for heroes you are making 55p per pot 55% margin. This industry is always going to be viable with profit margins at 40% and above and could even argue at even 35% we could still make a living. So how many years do you think it will be before inflation swallows up 20% of a pound coin? that is a huge amount and I would say probably about 4 years time.

In 4 years I think the government will be producing a Lot more £2 coins and hopefully they will replace the most common £1 coin so we could charge £2 for a pot of sweets, or maybe a 2 coin mechanism as 20p will be around for a long long time.

Who knows if there is a future in tower vending but hate the thought of there not being a future as I really do not know what the **** I would do!!!

What's everyone think about my comment?

Regards

Ross

[Rossi fan]

Hi Dave,

I don't think you are seeing the full picture here,

The tower vending industry are now teamed up with the help for heroes charity and we have managed to increase margins by another 10% along with another 5% increase from supplier competion. So siting towers now with help for heroes you are making 55p per pot 55% margin. This industry is always going to be viable with profit margins at 40% and above and could even argue at even 35% we could still make a living. So how many years do you think it will be before inflation swallows up 20% of a pound coin? that is a huge amount and I would say probably about 4 years time.

In 4 years I think the government will be producing a Lot more £2 coins and hopefully they will replace the most common £1 coin so we could charge £2 for a pot of sweets, or maybe a 2 coin mechanism as 20p will be around for a long long time.

Who knows if there is a future in tower vending but hate the thought of there not being a future as I really do not know what the **** I would do!!!

What's everyone think about my comment?

Regards

Ross

Hi Ross,

I think what has occurred recently is a good start. Suppliers need operators, so their incentive is to keep prices low and offer variety. I think tower vending will evolve now, but with this forum being open to all, suppliers are getting regular feedback from operators. We need to remember that suppliers need to recoup their investments and make a profit for this to be sustainable over the long term, so working with them, is the key. I would not worry about a £2 vend, just wait and see how things go.

Paul

[Ade]

ive filed mechs down to accept oversized false pound coins. reckon i could file it down to accept a £2 coin. might give it a go and test it out

Ade

[choice vending]

Hi Dave,

I don't think you are seeing the full picture here,

The tower vending industry are now teamed up with the help for heroes charity and we have managed to increase margins by another 10% along with another 5% increase from supplier competion. So siting towers now with help for heroes you are making 55p per pot 55% margin. This industry is always going to be viable with profit margins at 40% and above and could even argue at even 35% we could still make a living. So how many years do you think it will be before inflation swallows up 20% of a pound coin? that is a huge amount and I would say probably about 4 years time.

In 4 years I think the government will be producing a Lot more £2 coins and hopefully they will replace the most common £1 coin so we could charge £2 for a pot of sweets, or maybe a 2 coin mechanism as 20p will be around for a long long time.

Who knows if there is a future in tower vending but hate the thought of there not being a future as I really do not know what the **** I would do!!!

What's everyone think about my comment?

Regards

Ross

It a good point! the compertition along with the help 4 heros campain has kept the inflation issue at bay for a while. Yes i agree inflation will catch up with the tower vending industry in the end. As i see it the extra couple of years of keeping inflation from screwing us up helps. My business plan is based on paying my loans off and still be in business at the end of them 2013 in my case. I can then get away with earning smaller margains as i will have sh*t loads of machines already paid for in full.

[dorsetvending]

Out of interest bri how many machines do u have? Did u buy rounds up or employ site finder?

[Jon123]

My advice would be to be invest fairly heavily in pringle machines as I know there is a decent long term future in those machines (without pringles!) not going to say much more as obviously this is coming from a supplier but thats where I am putting alot of my money.

Cheers
Jonny

[Rossi fan]

My advice would be to be invest fairly heavily in pringle machines as I know there is a decent long term future in those machines (without pringles!) not going to say much more as obviously this is coming from a supplier but thats where I am putting alot of my money.

Cheers
Jonny

Hi Jonny,

What makes you so sure that Pringles prices will remain stable. Also, I find it difficult siting Pringles, as my pubs dont want crisp sales affected. Are there any other good pringles site types that you have tried.

Thanks,

paul